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[Pirates Armada]

its real simple and depending on which scientific studies you believe as disscussed in other threads makes no big difference, global warming or not. the bottom line is yes the ice around the world is melting because of to much energy. the type of energy can be argued around in circles but we know where all this extra energy is going - the ice. it has to go somewhere. so the problem becomes when the ice is gone there is going to be nothing to cool the earth down. it would seem that everything would die from a tinder box effect. maybe mother nature has another idea in mind not to die but thats a risky bet looking at other planets like mars. with all these studies being done to me the most logical still is harmful radiation from the sun and a depleated ozone layer which is not blocking out these rays caused by todays magical word "pollution"

Reply to Pirates Armada

Excellent point about the ice; I couldn’t agree with you more about this.

However as I was trying to show in my paper referred to in the thread “Energy and global warming”, before that thread was prematurely closed, presumably for political reasons and certainly not for scientific reasons, I believe the source of the energy does matter for the following reason.

If the anthropogenic energy were to come from the enhanced greenhouse gas effect, about which I have serious doubts, then the global warming could be stopped, in principal, by preventing any further emission of these GHG, for instance by increasing our nuclear energy capacity, using cleaner fossil fuel technology and renewables.

On the other hand, if the problem of GW is due simply to the very amount of ENERGY produced by mankind, as I have been trying to explain, then the only viable way forward is to use only the renewables, because this energy is already in the Earth’s system and diverting it for the use of mankind will not add any extra energy to the system.

As a result of helpful comments from a number of people on the web, I have slightly revised my ideas and have now included more explicitly the fact of energy loss by radiation to outer space. Also, on reflection, I have excluded the energy generated by the human population, ie the actual bodies themselves, on the basis that this energy is not a new feature any more than the energy caused by the rest of the biosphere, and the Earth will long ago have reached a stable equilibrium temperature which includes these effects. Regrettably, as I said, I was prevented from putting the record straight on this forum, but I shall soon be modifying my initial publications on other popular sites such as “open2.net” and “theenvironmentsite”.

Aubrey E Banner, Sale, Cheshire, UK

[Paul Ward]

Originally Posted by AEBanner

Reply to Pirates Armada

Excellent point about the ice; I couldn’t agree with you more about this.

However as I was trying to show in my paper referred to in the thread “Energy and global warming”, before that thread was prematurely closed, presumably for political reasons and certainly not for scientific reasons

The reason it was closed was your lack of joined-up thinking, lack of understanding of how science works and fundamental lack of understanding of the processes involved.

Much as you would like to imagine to be the victim of "political reasons", you just don't know what you are talking about. That's why the thread was closed.

Science is not a matter of opinion and argument, it is a question of hypothesis and proof, your idea was interesting but wrong - it therefore deserves no more time.

Please promote it elsewhere or even start your own website about it. If you continue to try and discuss it here, you will banned.

Why will I do this? Because science is too often contaminated by all kinds of spurious ideas that I will give no web-space to.

This is not personal or political, but because I choose not to have a website that gives publicity to fairy stories. Earlier, I likened it to flat-earth and astology - I wouldn't give them the oxygen of publicity either.

[Paul Ward]

Originally Posted by Pirates Armada

....the ice around the world is melting because of to much energy.

The ice is melting because it seems that energy that should be escaping into space is being preserved by the extra insulation resulting from increased greenhouse gases especially carbon dioxide.

This is fundamentally different to excess energy being produced and not escaping. It's like saying that the reason I'm hot today is because I just walked upstairs and not because I have this heavy winter coat on.

The danger with pseudo-scientific explanations is that they always appeal to "common sense" - they are more comfortable to live with than the real reason that is often quite abstract and difficult to understand.

There have been hot and cold phases in the earth's (geological) history and they have had nothing to do with how much heat is produced on earth. Volcanic activity cools the earth for instance due to blocking out the sun by dust. It doesn't warm it up because of the energy of the eruption.

Any heat generated on earth is p**sing in the wind compared to what comes in from the sun.

[Pirates Armada]

hahaha, you guys anyhow.

to futher extrapolate my non scientific ideals, i would like to add that it must not be heat related energy from the earth melting the POLAR ice caps but rather the same radiation that burns peoples skin maybe? (someone should sit outside with their shirt off in antarctica for a good day and see what happens) or a different ultraviolet that we cannot detect. it's proven that the ozone has a huge ever growing hole in it at the polars. Then again with the greenhouse effect the radiation bounces back hitting the ice again and again until it disipates rather then a "warming" like a lot of people might think. warming is just a long term effect.

[DeepMarket]

Originally Posted by Pirates Armada

Then again with the greenhouse effect the radiation bounces back hitting the ice again and again until it disipates rather then a "warming" like a lot of people might think. warming is just a long term effect.

Best explanation I have read in a long time