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  • #16
    Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

    Originally posted by Pirates Armada
    sounds rather unpleasant during the summer. does india have water problems because of this? drinking water and so on? lucky we have reverse osmosis. thanks for your views. i still believe hurricanes are on steriods.
    I believe they have water problems there anyway.. its not the cleanest of water sources

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

      And the point of Sushil's article was...????

      Just kidding!!

      It was thought provoking and in some ways humbly inspirational. I did read the whole lot and I was impressed. I do agree with most of what you're saying and in essence I think that if we thought a little about the way our caveman ancestors lived then we may happier. The most interesting points of the article were the sections on discussions and debates. The remarks were quite poignant and haunting in a way. I guess what you were trying to say is that less talk and more action would result in a more peaceful and less greedy society.....?

      I agree with Paul about the industrial revolution etc. In 'less fortunate' countries they are only waking up to the dream of what industry can do for them. We've already done our bit to kill off the earth, now it's their turn - which is only fair!!

      Pirates, can you please type with punctuation!! I feel like putting capital letters on all your sentence beginnings every time I read one of your posts!!


      psr

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      • #18
        Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

        Dear friends,

        I have made some additions to the article "Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment". To read the modified article please follow either of these links :

        PlanetSave

        EarthNewsWire

        sushil_yadav

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

          I wish I'd read this thread first then I could have saved myself a few million words spouting off on another thread. All very interesting stuff Sushil. Is this slow/emotion thing just a state of mind because mind altering drugs are said to have the same effect, by slowing down your perception of reality you actually begin to 'really see'! Because your mind is uncluttered by everyday nonsense it is able to think more efficiently and feel emotion far more strongly.
          Allegedly!!

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

            Originally posted by Funky
            I wish I'd read this thread first then I could have saved myself a few million words spouting off on another thread. All very interesting stuff Sushil. Is this slow/emotion thing just a state of mind because mind altering drugs are said to have the same effect, by slowing down your perception of reality you actually begin to 'really see'! Because your mind is uncluttered by everyday nonsense it is able to think more efficiently and feel emotion far more strongly.
            Allegedly!!
            Thanks for reading the article. Slow emotions are associated with slow breathing / heart rate and slow visual/ verbal processing. We actually see, hear and feel only when we slow down - rest of the time we are just like a machine/ robot.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

              Dear friends,

              The links to my modified article which I had posted in an earlier post are not working due to some problem. I want to post new links. To read the complete article please follow any of these links :

              http://www.planetsave.com/ps_mambo/o...id,68/catid,6/

              http://www.freeinfosociety.com/wforu...pic.php?t=3649

              http://www.ephilosopher.com/bb-topic-244.html

              sushil_yadav

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              • #22
                Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

                Man can repair and restore things that have been made by man himself. Car, Computer, aeroplane, rocket - if anything goes wrong with these things man can repair and restore.

                Man cannot repair and restore Nature/ Environment - because man did not make Nature/ Environment. Once a Forest is destroyed - it is gone for millions of years. One cannot create a Forest in 5 or 50 years - it takes millions of years to make a forest - containing millions of species of animals, insects, birds, plants and trees. Man can create a plantation in 5 or 50 years - not a forest.

                The only way to save Environment is by not destroying it - leave it alone - leave it undisturbed. If you destroy Environment you cannot repair and restore it.

                sushil_yadav

                Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
                PlanetSave
                Last edited by Paul Ward; 16th June 2007, 17:58.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

                  Originally posted by Pirates Armada
                  the industrial revolution is on the downswing, it hit it's peak already in most cases. he is right about it adversly effecting people in hard to notice ways but most of all it's damaging the enviornment. lives will also be effected greatly in these industrial hot spots when this downswing continues in the right direction which is down. that is why self containment and tech in this field interests me. it would seem as the next logical step rather then become more and more just some number in a futuristic downsized society to combat global problems. the problems from the enviornment being destroyed to the industrial downsizing could be real ugly on the street level. we came from nature so if we can't tend to it proper or get to far away from it then i believe yes the balance is off like sushil suggests.

                  Industrial Society is destroying necessary things [Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land] for making unnecessary things [Consumer Goods].

                  When we make consumer goods we kill Animals/ Trees, Air/ Water and Land - directly or indirectly.

                  Industrial Society destroys ecosystems - all Industrial Societies destroy ecosystems.

                  It hardly matters whether it is "Capitalist Industrial Society" - "Communist Industrial Society" - or "Socialist Industrial Society".

                  Industrial Society destroys ecosystems at every stage of its functioning - when consumer goods are produced - when consumer goods are used - when consumer goods are discarded/ recycled.

                  Raw material for industry is obtained by cutting up Forests. It is extracted by mining/ digging up the earth. It comes by destroying/ killing Trees, Animals and Land.

                  Industries/ Factories use Water. The water that comes out of Factories is contaminated with hundreds of toxic chemicals. Industry kills Water. What to speak of Rivers - entire Oceans have been polluted.

                  Industry/ Factories burn millions of tonnes of fuel and when raw material is melted/ heated up, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into the atmosphere. Industry kills Air.

                  Industrial Society has covered millions of square miles of land with cement and concrete. Industry kills Land.

                  When consumer goods are discarded/ thrown away in landfills it again leads to destruction of ecosystems.

                  When consumer goods are recycled, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into air, water and land.

                  Consumer goods are sold/ marketed through a network of millions of kilometers of rail / road network and shipping routes which causes destruction of all ecosystems that come in the way.


                  "Growth Rate" - "Economy Rate" - "GDP"

                  These are figures of "Ecocide".
                  These are figures of "crimes against Nature".
                  These are figures of "destruction of Ecosystems".
                  These are figures of "Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality".




                  In the context of "environmental crisis", "technology" and "consumerism" I would like to give an analogy.

                  A person is being stabbed repeatedly at regular intervals - every hour.

                  Some people are trying to save the victim.

                  The sane way to save is - you first stop the attack – you prevent the attack.

                  What these insane people do - they allow the attack to be continued. They don’t stop it -- they don’t prevent it.

                  Instead, what they do - They say we are going to save the victim by using technology - the best technology - the best medical care.

                  Bring this technology - Bring that technology.

                  Bring this technology - Bring that technology.


                  They give the victim the best technology - the best medical care.

                  In the meantime the stabbing continues – every hour – even while the best medical care is being given.

                  One can imagine the fate of the victim.



                  Ecosystems are getting destroyed due to production of consumer goods.

                  Every consumer good is made by killing animals, trees, air, water and land - directly or indirectly. [ more killing of nature takes place when consumer goods are used and discarded]

                  Industrial society is destroying necessary things - animals, trees, air, water and land for making unnecessary things - consumer goods.

                  The sane way of saving ecosystems is - you stop production of consumer goods - you reduce production of consumer goods to the minimum level.

                  But the insane Industrial Society continues producing consumer goods [ in fact production is being increased every day]

                  The insane response of Industrial Society is - We will save the environment with technology - the best technology.

                  Bring this technology - Bring that technology.

                  Bring this technology - Bring that technology.


                  In the meantime production of consumer goods continues - 3 billion people living in cities are continuously engaged in - making , buying and selling of consumer goods - killing the ecosystems moment by moment.

                  One can imagine the fate of environment.


                  Height of Insanity.......Height of Abnormality.

                  Destroy consumerism..... before it is too late.


                  sushil_yadav

                  Corrupt
                  ePhilosopher
                  Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
                  Last edited by sushil_yadav; 1st August 2008, 01:53.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

                    For several decades environmentalists have been warning modern society that ecosystems are getting destroyed - that consumerist lifestyle is not sustainable.

                    But modern society which was busy chasing progress, growth and development did not listen. It refused to believe there was any environmental crisis or problem. It said science and technology will always find a solution - if earth gets destroyed we will move on to another planet.

                    Impossible dreams were sold to people in the last few decades.

                    Moving to another planet would probably rank as the most impossible of all impossible things.

                    One space shuttle exploded during take off - another exploded on the return journey.

                    So far man has not been able to go beyond the moon. There is no other life sustaining ecosystem/ planet within the solar system. Outside the solar system planets and galaxies are millions of light years away - billions of light years away.

                    So when are we moving to a new home ?

                    Next year - or 5 years later ?


                    sushil_yadav
                    PowerSwitch
                    StrategyTalk
                    Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

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                    • #25
                      Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

                      What is most amazing about the issue of sustainability is the fact that modern society is trying to sustain the unsustainable - it is trying to sustain a consumerist system which has existed for almost zero percent of human existence on earth. The present consumerist lifestyle has existed for about 100 years. If we compare this with the total duration of human existence on earth it comes to almost zero percent.

                      Economy is a non-issue. Environment is important. Economy will not even exist without environment. Humans will not even exist without environment.

                      Modern society has plunged to extreme depths of insanity.

                      Modern society thinks it can be sustainable while it continues producing thousands of consumer goods.

                      Modern society thinks a peaceul world is possible while it continues to sell billions of tonnes of weapons all over the world.

                      Modern society thinks cancer can be cured while it continues flooding the ecosystems with thousands of carcinogens.


                      On a small planet which is just 40,000 km in circumference the first rule of sustainability is - destroy less.

                      We destroy ecosystems for food - for clothing - for shelter - and for thousands of consumer goods.

                      The less we destroy - the more sustainable we are.

                      The fewer things we make - the more sustainable we are.


                      On a small planet like earth only a non-consumerist society can be sustainable - only a society that destroys ecosystems for food, clothing, shelter[and health care] can be sustainable.



                      When something goes wrong with our cars, computers and aeroplanes, we contact the manufacturer to know how they could be repaired - where they could be repaired.

                      All ecosystems on earth are getting destroyed moment by moment. To repair, restore and regenerate them we need to contact the manufacturer. But where is the manufacturer of ecosystems? There is no human manufacturer - There are no multiNational Companies that manufactured rivers and oceans, fertile soil, forests, millions of species, millions of members in millions of species, arctic ice and other glaciers.

                      About 30 years ago most people refused to believe that arctic ice was melting or could melt in future.

                      Then satellite pictures started appearing and provided proof with "before and after" pictures. People reluctantly accepted that ice was melting - but were still not alarmed. They said it would take hundreds of years - thousands of years for ice to melt to a dangerous level.

                      If we compare satellite pictures of arctic ice of this year with those taken 30 years ago we would know how alarming the situation is.

                      Weather is becoming hotter, irregular and unpredictable across the globe. We have lost most of the forests and a large percentage of ice in Arctic region and glaciers elsewhere. Forests and ice have played a major role in regulating wind speed and direction of wind and monsoon/ rain clouds. Weather patterns were fairly constant for thousands of years. All that is changing now. The summer season is no longer the same as before - winters are not the same and monsoon rains are also no longer the same as before.

                      In the coming years agriculture is going to collapse worldwide due to change and irregularity of weather. Man has already decimated fish in the oceans. There will be nothing left for man to eat. The human species is going to starve to death. Just wait and see what happens in the next two decades.

                      Every ecosystem is in grave danger. The doomsday scenario is approaching hundreds of times faster than predicted earlier. The signs - the indicators are already there - the recent climate changes - the extreme weather conditions - droughts, floods, fires, hurricanes and typhoons. The collapse has already happened for millions of other species - they have been decimated. Human collapse is very near - just around the corner.


                      sushil_yadav
                      Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

                        I certainly agree that humans are in a very unsustainable relationship to our mother earth, but I think there is a place for technology in returning us to a sustainable future. In fact with the population of humans on the earth, it will be imperative that we use technology towards that end, rather than to continue our consumerist ways...a green future may very well also be a hi-tech future...

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

                          Originally posted by fast eddie
                          I certainly agree that humans are in a very unsustainable relationship to our mother earth, but I think there is a place for technology in returning us to a sustainable future. In fact with the population of humans on the earth, it will be imperative that we use technology towards that end, rather than to continue our consumerist ways...a green future may very well also be a hi-tech future...
                          Technology is not the solution - technology is the problem. Non-industrial society destroys ecosystems for food, clothing and shelter. An industrial society destroys ecosystems for consumer goods in addition to food, clothing and shelter. Industrial Society is the most destructive and least sustainable on a small planet like earth.

                          Very soon science is going to announce the gene for environmental destruction.

                          Humans are not responsible for environmental destruction - it is the gene.


                          Humans are not responsible for anything - the genes are responsible for everything.

                          It is the gene which is responsible for obesity.

                          It is the gene which is responsible for cancer.

                          It is the gene which is responsible for violence/ aggression.

                          It is the gene which is responsible for mental suffering.


                          When it comes to Olympic medal they will give it to a person - not to the gene.

                          When it comes to Nobel Prize they will give it to a person - not to the gene.

                          When it comes to rewarding work they will pay million dollar salary to the CEO - not to the gene.

                          When it comes to "Theory of Relativity" they will give credit to Einstein - not to the gene.




                          On earth we have got oceans and oceans of water - which have been polluted/ poisoned by man - but this is hardly news for humans.

                          Recently Man bombarded the moon with a rocket to discover traces of water - and it became the newspaper headline across the world.

                          They call it progress, growth, development.


                          Height of insanity - Height of abnormality.

                          Don't search for a few molecules of water in outer space.

                          Take care of the water that is available on earth.


                          sushil_yadav
                          PowerSwitch
                          Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

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                          • #28
                            Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

                            Food, Clothing & Shelter......these are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans....... Industrial consumer goods must be eliminated immediately.

                            Industrial Society is doing research on sustainability after destroying 75 - 90% of Biodiversity and Ecosystems. Nature has already done millions of years of research on sustainability.......Nature has already given us millions of years of proof of sustainability. Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years because their activity was limited to searching for food. Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million years because their activity was limited to searching for food. Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over 10,000 years [compared to Industrial Society]because their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter.



                            For the last 50 years Intellectuals have been debating what is good for Environment......Capitalist Industrial Society, Communist Industrial Society or Socialist Industrial Society?

                            This is like debating what is good for people.....Capitalist Poison, Communist Poison or Socialist Poison.

                            Poison kills people.....it does'nt matter who made it ......Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

                            Industrial Activity kills ecosystems.....It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

                            All Industrial Activity destroys environment......Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Transportation Industry, Construction Industry, Recycling Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Millions of kilometers of Rail & Road network and Shipping Lanes…..they all destroy environment….. It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

                            American Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems…..Russian Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems……Chinese Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems…….Indian Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems……Every Industrial Society destroys ecosystems…… It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

                            In just 250 years Industrial Society has destroyed 75 - 90% of Forests, Wild Animals and Fish Population......Population of Lions, Tigers and Elephants is down to 2 - 5% of what it was 100 years ago......Population of Large Fish in Oceans is down to 10% of what it was 100 years ago.....Industrial Society has poisoned the entire planet with Trillions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste, Nuclear Waste.....It has killed Trillions of Animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses and billions of acres of Fertile Soil with Cement And Concrete.

                            Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

                            Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

                            Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over 10,000 years[compared to Industrial Society].......because their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter.

                            Industrial Society has destroyed almost all Ecosystems in just 250 years......because it is destroying environment for thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

                            Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods must stop immediately.......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter......And even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.



                            There is only one cause of environmental destruction......Industrialization.

                            Overpopulation and Overconsumerism are only consequences/ by-products of Industrialization.

                            Overconsumerism is quite obviously a consequence of Industrialization..... Industrial consumer goods and services would not exist without Industrial Activity.

                            Overpopulation is also a by-product of Industrialization. The entire world was overbreeding until the middle years of 20th century.....even Western Countries had 5 - 12 children per family[and even more].....and yet population of the world remained low before industrialization because of high death rate, lower life span and shortage of food and water. It was only 1 billion in 1800 AD. India and China have large populations today because they started with larger populations thousands of years ago, since ancient civilizations thrived in these regions. What was the population of Europe/ America/ West 2000 years ago????......Was it comparable to eastern population of India and China????

                            Industrialization is the cause of overpopulation and overconsumerism.

                            Moreover, Environment has been destroyed by Industrialization/ Consumerism…….Not by Population/ Overpopulation.

                            Total World Population has not increased ……It has decreased……In fact total world population has been decimated.

                            When we talk of population we should take into account population of all animal species, not just human population.

                            Industrial Society has decimated millions of Animal Species……Increase in human population has coincided with decrease/ decimation of millions of animal species. The total burden of population on this planet has not increased…..It has decreased.

                            Industrial Society has decimated millions of other species.....but there was a time when the combined population of other animal species was much greater than present human population.....and we don't even need to include smaller animals in this count.....the combined population of big animals alone whose size and weight was equivalent to or greater than man was much greater than current human population of 7 billion.

                            The amount of food this animal population was eating was much greater than the food consumed by humans today.......Yet millions of animal species did not destroy environment and lived sustainably on earth for millions of years......because they destroyed environment only for food and not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

                            If animals had started a consumerist "Industrial Society" millions of years ago they would have destroyed all ecosystems millions of years ago.

                            The entire world has been trying to control human population for 50 years and these efforts should / will continue in future.....so where is the problem with population?????

                            What is the cause of human overpopulation??????......It is Industrialization......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion today ........In the absence of Industrialization world population would only be a small fraction of 7 billion today.

                            It is not population that destroys environment......It is lifestyle.......The combined population of millions of animal species was much greater than present human population.......and yet they did not destroy environment for millions of years because they destroyed environment only for Food.......not for Thousands of Consumer Goods.

                            The cause of Environmental Destruction is Industrialization / Consumerism.........Not population / overpopulation.

                            A Hunter_Gatherer Society of 7 billion would not destroy environment [And a Hunter_Gatherer Society would never reach a population of 7 billion]

                            An Agrarian Society of 7 billion would cause much lesser environmental destruction than an Industrial Society of 7 billion [And an Agrarian Society would never reach a population of 7 billion]

                            Industrialization is the cause of Human Overpopulation and Overconsumerism

                            It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to complain about overpopulation when it itself is the cause of overpopulation......It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to make attempts to control population while promoting Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP exponentially.

                            Height of Insanity!

                            Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods must stop immediately.......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter.


                            Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

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